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Welcome to the Yog Nation, the Spread of Gratitude podcast on the OneTech Gration platform.
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Hello, friends.
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My name is Yogesh Patel, and this podcast explores the themes of bullying, self-awareness, and the power of our inner spirit, including the silent battles we all face.
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Join me every week as I invite high-profile guests as we explore how adversity shapes us, how gratitude lifts us, and how we can all uncover the inner strength that we all have within ourselves.
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Join the conversation.
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I appreciate you listening in.
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What if the thing that saved you as a kid could become the thing that guides you as an adult?
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As we close out 2025 in the holiday season, my next guest is Adam Saunders.
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He reminds us that gratitude isn't just a feeling.
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It's a practice you build one honest choice at a time.
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Abandoned by his father at age two and raised by a single mom, carrying her own pain, Adam found a surprising refuge in oil-based modeling clay and turned that early lifeline into a lifelong language for sculpting and design with traditional training and study of the human form with his friend next door, right beside him.
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Today, the user experience designer and lifelong artist shares why we have to back our own creativity, stop forcing the right pace, and rediscover the value of authenticity, sincerity, and the inner resolve that pulls us out of our dark times and dark places.
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With gratitude, welcome to the podcast, Adam.
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Thank you, Yogi.
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Thank you so much for those words.
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It's really an honor to speak with you today.
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Ah, honors honors mine.
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I never had an artiste before, so I'm really excited, and hopefully the citizens of Young Nation are going to be excited on this podcast episode.
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So uh let's get down to it.
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How do you define your craft and what place does this have in today's society?
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Yeah, I think um, in the purest sense, at least the ideal that I strive for, is to sort of allow the uh the divine to come through us and to be able to sort of channel what goodness is in our environment into something visual that is beautiful and also meaningful and uplifting.
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Um I think in the in the purest sense that's my aim.
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As far as its place in society, um I don't think that um art in general, specifically sculpture, has the place in society that it should have.
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Um and I don't just say that as a self-serving mind.
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Yeah, because well I uh I want to live in a world filled with beautiful and uplifting things that remind us of the goodness inside, the goodness in each other.
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And uh I feel like um at least in American culture, we've fallen from that in many ways.
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I feel like um art is used in most cases to shock, sometimes to offend, to trigger us, to uh honestly, I think um as an artist, sometimes I see things that almost feel like a mockery of art itself.
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Um I don't know.
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I'm curious uh if uh if you've ever experienced that with something you've seen.
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Or as a mockery.
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I don't believe I I wouldn't know how to judge that.
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I'm just not experiencing it enough.
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Yeah, I'm thinking like banana duct tape to the wall type thing.
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Oh, yeah.
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Something something that a three-year-old can do.
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Yeah, or um or just something that um I guess uh bending the terms of you know painting, art, sculpture, dance, music to sort of encompass anything, you know, the the idea or the narrative that anything can be art.
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And you know, uh if if anything is art, then everything is art and also nothing is art, and everything just kind of falls into one giant mush, you know?
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But I guess art in its truest sense is a form of expression.
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So I guess the idea is to emote a reaction when something beautiful is created, right, through the divine.
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Is is that what you're is that what I'm trying to hear?
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Is that what I'm hearing?
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Yeah, I think um the uh the viewer's reaction um when I'm creating something is actually not at the forefront of my mind.
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Um what I'm thinking generally when I'm creating is um I'm trying to tap into something pure.
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I'm trying to come from a pure place and let um and let that spirit come through me, that light come through me.
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And to sort of work.
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To sort of let that purity, not to sound you know, like some guru or whatever, but to sort of let that come through me unfiltered to the to the best degree that I can, you know, to get my own um self out of the way.
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Like things um that I've experienced in the past, you know, that I draw on for inspiration, you know, as I'm sure every artist does.
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I don't have a lot of artist friends, but um, but that's at least my concept of how others do it.
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That you um you take something that you have and you try and um just uh express that in the most pure way possible, and you do it, or at least I do it, as sort of a uh a way of connecting to the the beauty, the artistic beauty, the artistic genius of the world that we live in because I believe in a divine creator, and I feel like you know being able to do that in a human sense on a human level connects me to that that great divine power in a way, you know, in a humble way.
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Well, tell me about the uh guest that uh we have next to you.
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Oh yeah, so um this one um I actually did a really, really long time ago.
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It's uh still in progress, and I haven't touched it for quite a while, but this is a biblical story um of Abraham and Isaac.
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And uh I love this story in particular because um Abraham represents God the Father, and his son Isaac represents the Lord Jesus Christ.
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And uh Abraham was not, you know, as I don't know, uh the extent of your Bible study, but he didn't have to follow through with that commandment to kill Isaac.
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But um, but the Lord Jesus Christ did have to follow through with being crucified for us.
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Um and so uh it just is a way of representing that uh that story that I think is so important and so powerful for every Christian.
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Yeah, no doubt, absolutely.
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That is so true.
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And how did you actually get started with sculpting?
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I started really early.
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Um you mentioned in my intro, which was really uh beautiful by the way, that um I was raised by a single mom.
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So my early childhood, um, it was just me and her.
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She was um dealing, as you alluded to, with a lot of pain from the abandonment.
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It was not what she had signed up for.
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You know, she signed up to be a mom to raise her kids and do that in a very traditional way, but um all of a sudden she was very um, without warning, kind of dumped into an alternate path that was not of her choosing.
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And um so she was dealing with a lot of emotional pain, you know, as uh as was I to the degree that I could understand what was going on.
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Um we lived a very meager life, we didn't have a lot of possessions, and uh, but one thing that she did give me early on was some modeling clay.
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I I I wish I could recall where she got it, but from some you know, random dollar store or something like that.
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And I was drawn to the tactile nature of it, uh the fact that it never dries out, you could do so much with it, and um, and that clay became you know a friend in a way, and I would give it you know personality traits, like I would make tiny figures and uh you know manipulate them and and um uh to go into more depth, um we moved around a lot as well, and uh that kind of had a social impact on me.
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Um she would receive you know unwanted advances from superiors at work, and um, we'd be forced to move uh here and there all over the place.
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And so um I got in the habit of making friends, saying goodbye to those friends, or sometimes not being able to say goodbye.
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And so I began to shut down socially, and uh and that kind of plunged me deeper into this inward, reflective, creative side.
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I think a lot of kids though, um have something similar to you.
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I mean, certainly, you know, God forbid, not the same journey as you and your as you and your mom, but that same level of anxiety, of uh how what would you say to that person that perhaps is listening, or perhaps a listener who may know someone that is in a similar predicament where life has just thrown them one bad apple uh at a time.
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Because that's what that's what this podcast is about, Adam, right?
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It's it's about finding our own inner strength to overcome our adversity in however many degrees of adversity there are there are uh there is in life.
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Oh, that's a great question.
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Um what I would say um, and this advice may not be perfect, but I think it's the the most perfect advice I'm capable of giving, which is um when you're struggling like I was with you know um people bullying you, I was an easy target being a new kid over and over, so I experienced a lot of that growing up.
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Um finding my creative side helped me because no matter what anyone said, or no matter how cruel somebody was, I had something inside that could not be taken away.
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Um and that was uh a huge strength for me.
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I think even without an artistic talent.
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Was your mother reminding you of this, or you knew that about yourself early on?
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I don't recall her reminding me of that.
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That's just something that um that I sort of arrived at on my own as a young age.
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I feel like um because of the circumstances of my upbringing, I sort of grew up emotionally a little quicker than I might have otherwise.
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Right.
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And looks like you found modeling clay as perhaps an outlet uh against Boeing or just to find that inner peace that you had to survive as a child.
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I wish I could say that it was always that simple.
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Um there were times where you know I did experience a lot of anger, a lot of negative feelings, and uh and I flirted with a very you know dark emotional side, but um I was able to not be consumed by that, I think, because of uh because of this ability and and the value that it had for me.
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Oh that's that's beautiful.
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I like that.
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And uh it reminds me of a Pablo Picasso quote, uh Adam, where he says, every child is an artist.
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The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up.
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Looks like you've uh you've overcome that.
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Yeah, I think there's a lot of wisdom in that quote.
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I have not heard that statement before, but yes, I agree with that completely.
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Yeah, I just thought uh, you know, in my research, I just thought, what would be an appropriate quote that I could find from one of the masters?
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The hence I got this one.
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I think what's it's it's so true.
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I think we all have that creativity inside of us.
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And you know, whether it's the environment, the people around us that deviate us from that path, I think that's really what you want that your primary message is is how do we maintain our creativity?
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Um, well, number one, to discover it, and number two, to maintain it, and number three, to excel at it.
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So whether that is perhaps being a musician, you know, working with your hands uh in clay, uh what are your thoughts on that?
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I believe that all creative talents are gifts from God.
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I think that um back to your um original question of what place does it have in society, I really would love to see more emphasis placed in education on the arts.
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I think um it's just a crucial part of life, really.
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Um and something that no matter how old you get, you can do.
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I mean, there are things that I could do in youth.
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I mean, I ran track, um, I was pretty okay.
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Um, I can't run like I could when I was, you know, in my late teens, you know, my mid to late teens.
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But um, but my ability to create uh as far as sculpture has only grown since that time.
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Yeah, that's uh it's amazing what you discover or rediscover uh something about yourself as you grow older.
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Um yeah, this is this is it's fascinating, just that human evolution, or not human evolution, but how we grow as a person.
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Um going back to your sculpting, uh what's a question you'd want to ask Michelangelo over a cup of coffee?
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Ooh.
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Yeah, I think if there's um maybe uh one person that I could speak to from the past, some past important figure, uh Michelangelo would definitely be one of them.
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I think right behind him would be Johann Sebastian Bach.
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But um if I could ask him anything, I would ask him, because I uh I know he was deeply religious, but you know, all of his like his work reflects um Jesus Christ, you know, um all over the place.
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And uh I would just love to hear him uh describe what role faith played in his work.
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And I'd also love to just hear him describe his process because to me working with stone of that magnitude really boggles the mind.
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Um, because my uh form is additive, it's a different process.
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You know, I'm working on a you know a much smaller scale.
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There's it's very forgiving.
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I'm free to make mistakes, I'm free to change my mind and move limbs, turn heads, you know, change the direction of the flow of drapery or hair.
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But he had to have a singular vision from the time he made his first chisel stroke.
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I would just love to pick his brain about how he did that.
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I think those old masters, I think, were uh inspired in a way that I only dream of being.
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Yeah, I can imagine just like we're on the wrong chisel of some of a portion of the nose would have to, there's no restart.
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No undo button.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Well, also another key difference between you and Michelangelo is I heard because I studied some parts of art history, that uh he was a very much a hothead, and I don't see you being that type of individual, Adam.
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You know, I think um maybe it takes a hothead to have that level of commitment and to contain that level of genius.
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I I don't know, I can only imagine.
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It's a it's an answer we'll never know, and I don't think we care to know.
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But again, it goes back to your point about how all of us are creatives and um exploring that side of you that makes you whole as an individual and uh and as a person, especially when they're trying to go through tough times, they're trying to find out their own answers, they may not have the environment or support to help guide them.
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Um I guess my question to you, Adam, is as you were growing up and you know discovering your talents and who you are as a person, what is the most common mistake people make when trying to be positive?
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That's something I haven't really thought about.
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But um, if I had to just give my knee-jerk answer.
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When you're trying to be positive, I feel like um there's a bit of uh like that saying that there's opposition in everything.
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And when you're trying your best, like really putting a focused effort on, you know, focusing on positivity, sometimes that opposition can creep in.
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And at least myself personally, I almost feel hyper-aware of uh when something goes wrong when I'm trying like my best to do things right or to focus on that the uh glass half full as opposed to the inverse.
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And so that those can kind of be tripping stones for you.
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And it's just like, you know.
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Do you mean opposition?
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I'm sorry, opposition in terms of what exactly.
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I didn't quite catch that.
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Is that the opposite of yeah?
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So, like, I guess to give an example, um, just a random example, you're um you're washing your car, you're trying to take care of your um your vehicle, for example, and then the next day it rains.
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You know, like you make an effort to you know go and do something productive, and then it's like, okay, bad luck strikes, and and now you're back to square one, and that can kind of throw you off your game a bit.
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I think um just realizing that you have done everything that was in your control, you know, everything within your power, and if something unfortunate or you know, uh or whether it's timing, bad luck, or just you know, random circumstance gets in your way, don't let that derail your mindset, I guess would be my thoughts there.
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I think that's I think that's an important lesson that all of us uh need to be rhyme reminded of.
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I mean, the young and the young at heart.
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Um You know, move forward.
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Uh you did, you know, put your best foot forward, and that's all you can that's all you can do.
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And the rest, as they say, falls into place, whether you like the results or not.
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It is what it is, but it's it's that inertia, right?
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Um, it's it's that energy, it's that spirit that you put into something.
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And that's something that I remind myself of all the time because it's something I struggle with.
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In what way?
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I can be negative.
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I guess I'll just not be vague about it.
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You know, um, I try to keep a positive mindset.
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I feel like, I don't know, um, but uh when things are thinking about our own critics, though, right?
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So it's very natural to you know perennially, you know, beat yourself up unnecessarily, but it but I think that's what pushes us forward though.
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Yes.
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Thank you for saying that so eloquently.
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That's so true.
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We're definitely our own worst critics.
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Um, I see flaws in myself and in my work that other people don't notice, but you know, they stand out like you know, signal flares to us, don't they?
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It's painful because you're it's self-inflicted wounds, right?
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Yeah.
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That I had that I happen to see for myself.
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It's like, you know, because I think of myself as X, that's not the qualities that people see in me.
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As an example, right?
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Yeah.
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And going back to your sources, you know, and divine, um, what role does faith play into your work, uh, into your craft?
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For me personally, it plays a really big role.
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Um so uh I growing up, I was not religious at all.
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I really had no beliefs about uh God or the afterlife or anything like that.
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Um when I around the time I entered college, I started taking those matters a little more seriously, and uh and I did finally um latch on to some beliefs.
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But um I reached a point where I began to question those, and I sort of had a like a collapse of the things that I believed in.
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Um, and I had to more or less start over and and reconstruct my own faith and just ask myself, what do I truly believe in, and why do I believe in it?
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And putting that pressure on myself to not just say, What do I believe, uh, but why do I believe it?
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And the answer can't just be, well, because it feels good, you know, it makes me feel uh um at peace to accept this and not question it.
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Um as I was saying earlier, like looking around our world at the beauty of it, at the magnificence of it.
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Um when I drive my kids to school every morning, I'm driving east on the on the freeway, and I love when the sun is rising and the clouds are looking absolutely gorgeous and the sunlight is breaking through and just giving us this spectacular show.
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And I think to myself every time I see something like that, that God is the ultimate artist, like He is the creator, and what a genius, like what an artistic genius God is.
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And so um, to me, um the connection of being able to create and sort of say, hey, you know, I um have done something to enhance the beauty of this world in my own very, very small, small way.
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Um it's like uh this is my way of saying, you know, I recognize the power of God.
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It's my offering to Him in a very real way.
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Yeah, and I think we're all reminded of that of the holidays.
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I mean, given that Christmas is a religious holiday, um, I think it's really appropriate that uh, you know, the final two weeks of 2025, we focus on faith and what it does to bring out the humanity in all of us in terms of being caring, being giving to others, helping one another.
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:46.880
So I think that, and you know, perhaps your art does reflect that.
00:24:47.200 --> 00:25:01.759
Uh, but wanted to leave the final word to you, Adam, in terms of you know what you think this world that we live in that is filled with beauty, with creativity at its core.
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:10.160
Yeah, I uh I love the timing of our discussion being close to the holidays and faith being such a part of that.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:24.000
Um I just think that we should all strive to contribute the beauty that's in ourselves to the outside world so that we can all share in that.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.279
Um, as I said earlier, I want to live in a world full of beautiful things.
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:43.920
I think witnessing the creativity of others, how they bring that out into the world, whether it's through music, through dance, through photography, through literature, um, or sculpting, whatever it is, our world needs that.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:26:02.880
And uh, and if you're a creative who's listening to this, I hope that you dig inside, look inward, see what's there, and um just connect with that and bring out something, practice it.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.519
Um and there is value there.
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:14.559
You may think that nobody's seeing it, nobody's paying attention, but that's not that doesn't matter.
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:21.200
What matters is that you are doing something with the gift that God has given you.
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:22.880
Beautifully stated.
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.519
Adam, I thank you for coming on the podcast.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.400
And for the listeners, this is pretty incredible.
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:40.160
I mean, to s to have a true creative come on the podcast and share his insights in terms of what creativity is, along with how he gets his source of inspiration from the divine.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:51.440
You can see it's certainly reflective in the background uh of what Adam has, which is kind of pretty cool with uh with Abraham and Isaac, if I'm not mistaken, if I remember correctly.
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.519
Uh, but it's it's a thing of beauty.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:54.960
It's a thing of beauty.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:18.799
And I guess um, you know, for me, I'll probably have a greater appreciation of art more now that I've listened and heard what you've mentioned, Adam, to give a little more insight in terms of how and what and why and the meaning behind every artwork, whether that is a piece of of clay sculpture uh or even music.
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.039
So thank you for enlightening us, Adam.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:22.559
Thank you so much for having me, Yogi.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:23.440
It's been a real pleasure.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:24.160
Likewise.
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:24.799
All the best.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:25.200
Take care.
