Why Libraries Matter for Education, Mental Health, and Community Support

Welcome And Meet Michael Fritz

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome to the Yoge Nation, the Spirit of Gratitude podcast on the Wintergration platform. Hello, friends. My name is Yogesh Patel, and this podcast focuses on bullying, self-awareness, and our inner spirit, inviting high-profile guests to share their experiences on these topics. And my next guest is Michael Fritz, the internet's most beloved librarian with two million followers across all social media platforms, spreading his message of having a library card, which is what I have here, along with his very strong advocacy of literacy and mental health. With his infectious personality, which you will find out here in a moment, Michael has a master's degree in library science and has graced the covers of Time Magazine's Next Leader's Edition. Quite impressive. With gratitude, welcome to the podcast, Michael.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited for this. I always love talking about library, literacy, and mental health, and so much more.

Becoming A Library Kid For Life

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Absolutely. Well, let's let's get started. What how what drew your what was your inspiration and passion around libraries in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

You know what it is? I think I've just I've always loved libraries since I was a kid. I started going to library with my mom and my siblings uh when I was three years old, um, and then got my first cyber card at the age of five. And I think I've just been hooked ever since. Um the Pizza Hut Booking Challenge, um, the summer, the summer reading challenges, reading as many books as I could to earn that free book prize. Um, just loving characters like Juni V. Jones, Henry Huggins, Roth S. Mouse, uh The Wayside School Kids, Chronicles of Narnia, Um, But Not Buddies, so many more books.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

What's the appeal though? There has to be some sort of connection with you internally. What is what is that spirit like in you?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

No, what what I what I've just described is it is a connection. I've I've known I've been 34 years old. I've been in libraries ever since I was a kid. I was homeschooled, so I was in libraries almost every single day, if not every single day, every single week, because that's where my mom took us to get our curriculum. So the library has always been a part of my life. That's a connection. It is struggling as a kid. Um it was just hard to hard to be myself, hard to feel like I love myself in the libraries where I felt like I belong, where I felt safe, where I felt like, yes, this is the place that's for me, and it was my local library.

Libraries As Safe Places To Belong

SPEAKER_00 2:18

How do you think that's changed uh over time in terms of the way libraries are hopefully an integral part in uh in a school or and or in a community? What have you seen?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

You know what, a lot has changed. I think a lot I still meet so many people who wonder like, are libraries relevant today in the digital age? Like, aren't aren't isn't everything going online? Isn't it fully digital? And it's like, yes, a lot of it's still a lot of it, um a lot of things are, but libraries are actually we're moving forward with the times. Um we're always gonna be about books, we're always gonna push books and literacy on everybody. But we've added collections like video games, like musical instruments, like board games, see the new library. So there really is something for everyone. Um things are changing, even though yes, there's now there's e-books, now there's audio books, it's not just books that you can feel in your hands. Um more and more we're trying to do something for everybody, and oftentimes people don't realize how P how many people are not literate when it comes to computers. They don't know how to use a mouse, they don't know how to type, they don't know how to still they don't know how to use a keyboard. Many, many people who come into libraries have no idea how to do those things. Um library is still that place where they come to where they come to learn, where they come to check their emails, um, they don't have Wi-Fi, they don't have computers of their own. So even with all these changes, um the world has not changed that much. People have not are have not been able to afford the changes that uh technology and the digital world has done. So libraries are still like, yes, we have all these new things, we're go we're going above and beyond to include everyone, but for those of you who are still left behind with the changes, we're still here to support you just as we've always been.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Well, it looks like the library is a place where there's that foundation of that joy of learning.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yes, lifelong learning.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, and I've always believed that you know, with a book, right, you can see it, smell it, touch it, feel it. Um and I guess it also what you what you just shared reminds me of I'm not sure if you've heard of an author James Baldwin.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

I have, absolutely. Oh, yeah, legends.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, so back in the day when I was in grade school and middle school and high school, and he talked about you know how he got his foundation from a library. That's where he spent the majority of his time.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

So yeah, I mean it's just it's it's a perfect place to be for every every every person from all walks of life. If you're if you're rich, if you're poor, if you're introverted, if you're extroverted, um, if you suffer from mental health, if you have anxiety, depression, the library is a place where you can go and you can you can just be, you can just exist. Um, and most libraries you don't even need a library card to be there. You can just walk in, sit down, you can walk around, touch the books, like you're saying, have that physical presence with the books, or you can just look and find something new. So many people uh make friends at their local library um just from being there. People use library for meeting rooms, so I totally get what James Baldwin said.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

And see what I meant, citizens of Yog Nation, about his infectious personality?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

It's it's all around us. That's that's just what that's what the library does. It's some of I'm a very introverted, quiet person, but when I talk and start talking about libraries and literacy, something happens where I'm just like, ah, there's that there's that extroverted part of me. It's the it's the library come come flooding in.

Social Media As A Library Megaphone

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, do you think social media is the enemy of a library?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

That's a good question. I think I I don't think I've ever thought about it like that, but I would I think my direct answer would be no, no, it's not, just because social media um is such a I've I've learned it's such a valuable tool for libraries. Um I kind of like I mean I've been on social media since I was 13 to 14 years old. Um when I when I started doing it on social media for libraries, um I just realized that like the uh the book talk, booksogram, um, TikTok and Instagram for book lovers, for bookworms, book dragons. Um I realized that you know what, this is where everyone's at. Everyone's on the internet um in some form or passion, the the various niches, the various corners of the internet, and just like how do we reach those corners and how do we remind them of the library? And then I realize it's it was right there. Just start talking about the library. And I think I love it, I think I love it so much that that's the way it worked. And I've I've met so many more library workers, librarians, um, literacy experts who are like, yes, we can use social media, we can use these different platforms as a tool to reach people and let them know that the library is still relevant, it's still here. So I think honestly, social media is the way we remind people that the libraries are free. You can go get a library, you can go get a library card, you can borrow books, you can borrow movies, you can borrow music, you can come to these programs. Um, and the way we're reminding them is through social media because so many people have reached out to me and said, I forgot how much I love the library. I forgot what my local librarian did for me in my life. I forgot that I need to bring my family to the library so they can experience that joy that they had as library kids so that their library kids can be joyful library kids. Um, and I think that's all happening through social media because we're all we're all there in that shared internet space, um, just as tired, exhausted adults and kids and human beings, and we're like, yes, social media, libraries too, libraries are everywhere, and that includes social media.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Well, also for me, every time I go into my public library, I just get that sense of simplicity, right? I mean, the world could be on fire. I mean, not metaphor, metaphorically, of course, but just there's that joy and this is simplicity of just sitting down, enjoying a book. And by the way, a lot of credit goes to our state, local, and federal governments who, you know, pump money into making sure that libraries are so relevant.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

It isn't, and we we need we need even more funding to be more relevant, to do more and more for more and more people so that library workers who are honestly burnt out from various forms of life, mental health struggles, and just being human beings need the funding, need the need the the um the salaries that they deserve as library workers. Library workers deserve everything good, um, and also just the means to be able to have better library buildings that actually convince people that they don't they're not they're not just welcome at their local library, but they belong in the library, funding to help with accessibility so that people with wheelchairs can enter the library, more ramps and other services to be able to reach more communities who speak different languages, all these tools to reach people, to teach people and encourage people that the local library is a place where they can become the best versions of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah, that's that's a good point. I think uh architecture also plays a role in that, in the sense that how things are laid out space-wise, the amount of natural light that comes in.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

And you know what I love too? I don't know if I don't know if you've gotten gotten a chance to visit libraries all over the nation, all over the world. I haven't had all over the world.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Just the national library in DC, and then but yeah, but uh I'm curious where this is going now.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Just like but no, but I mean, but more and more of them are becoming, I mean, I wouldn't say more beautiful, but like they're really, really cool. I mean, I've always thought libraries were the coolest place in the world, but they're they're full of color, they're not all beige anymore, they're full of colorful walls, colorful murals, um, different fun little furniture. Um, they're just exciting. Like libraries are like, you know what, this is what you're saying, this is architecture saying, yes, we want more light, we want, we want plants, we want bushes, we want colorful art on the walls to make people feel comfortable and relax and want to keep coming back to these institutions.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Well, and just a sidebar topic, I mean, you have over two million followers across again all social media platforms, and you mentioned in our pre-planning call about some of the messages that you have. They accuse you of toxic positivity. Could you describe that? And I guess uh yeah, could you could you elaborate on that?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, I'll I'll do I'll do the best I can. I myself don't know what toxic positivity really is. I think I'm a fan of just all positivity. We live in such a dark, wicked, wicked world that any form of positivity that we can pursue is something that I'm trying to find with my own with my own struggles. Um I think what people mean when they talk about toxic positivity is just like like no matter what, I'm gonna be positive. Um, I'm gonna find happiness even if it's not real, even if it's saying, like, you know what, no matter what, this is good, this is joyful. Um and what I think it really breaks down to is it just kind of when the when people talk about toxic positivity, they're like, okay, but do you not believe in people having bad days? Are you saying it's not okay to go down in the dump? I think that's what people think toxic posity. They think I'm saying, by no means can you have a bad day because you have this to be happy about, you have this to be joyful about.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

And my message is things to be grateful, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yes, but yeah, but you know what? But yeah, being grateful, being thankful, but I think in being grateful and being thankful, um, my messages, I hope, are the opposite of toxic positivity. Um, where I'm trying to convince people to per to pursue joy, to pursue kindness, pursue trying to get okay, because I have many days where I'm not okay. I've yet I'm again I'm 34 years old and I've never had 24 consecutive hours of joy. I'm st I'm still I'm still trying. Um so my messages are always talking about it's okay to not be okay. Um and how are we getting to okay together? How are we surviving 24 hours of at a time? How are we getting to tomorrow? Um, so yes, my message is positive because I'm talking about libraries, I'm talking about literacy, trying to convince people to get library cards, to visit the local library. I'm also trying to convince people that it is okay to not be okay, and you can still pursue all those things. You can have a bad day, you can struggle, you can be just laying down on your couch, laying down in your bed for 24 hours, and I'm I'm okay with that. That is the that is one way to have an adventure, to make it through the day, and it may not be the most joyful, the happiest experience, but you're still doing what you have to do. Um I think that's what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Do you think it's the fear of being judged?

Mental Health And Generational Language

SPEAKER_01 11:46

It very much is. I think that's just a very human response, and that's I think that's a lot of what it is. And honestly, I think when people talk about toxic positively, when they talk about the response to me on social media, maybe not they're not my biggest fans, and that's quite okay. There's a lot of people in the world. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting a bunch of people who have been very kind to me. Um and just saying, you know what, this is this is what we're this is what we're trying to do, this is all that we're trying to do. Um so people, yeah, I think people honestly, they're just having bad days themselves. They don't know what to do, they have no idea how to get to that next day themselves. Um perhaps they're taking it, taking it out um on me, on people who have um positivity like myself. Um I have no idea, but you know what? I think for me, like maybe one day they're gonna need my message, my messages of being obsessed with the library, being obsessed with literacy and trying to talk about mental health um to help normalize the conversation, like so many wonderful people are. Um I'm not the only person doing what I'm doing. I just get very excited about all the things that I love to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I think well, how do you define mental health from your perspective? I mean, again, you're a strong advocate uh from what you post and your blogs and and your talks.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Well, for me, I think when I talk about mental health, I'm talking about prior prioritizing mental health. So prioritizing taking care of your mind just as much um as your body is mental health to me. It's saying, yes, my brain, I need to do I need to treat my my brain as kindly as possible. Um I don't know. I I personally think I unfortunately am always gonna have um struggles with anxiety and depression and the such. Um but I'm ho I'm but I'm just trying to keep it at bay so that maybe one day I can just talk about these things and say, hey, somehow I figured out how to master my anxiety. I have mastered my mental health. Um if I can help people in turn, um, I would love to. So I don't know if that answers the question, what is mental health? Um, but that's kind of my my TikTok two-minute field what mental health is.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, and I guess you know, part of it is is generational, right? I mean, I am Gen X. You are a generation uh uh younger than me. And so for me growing up, you know, yes, of course we all I mean we all have anxiety. I mean, but not to say that I particularly masked it in in a way, but you know, when it comes to say name-calling, there is a saying. I'm not sure if you've heard the phrase, you know, sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. Um but I don't know, it's just I I hear a lot of this discussion of mental health, and and Michael, you we and I we you and I talked about this, but it's it's more the mental growth aspect that everyone, no matter what age, ethnicity, background, profession, we all strive to do. So it's more around the m the areas of mental growth, as well as not only feeding your mind, but it's also feeding your body and feeding your soul.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

It is. It's a no that's a great way to that's a great way to describe it. I also I love that you mentioned it being generational, because even for even for me, us being from just different generations, I still grew up when mental health was still heavily stigmatized. Um, I'm black, Mexican, and white. Two of those cultures um have kind of had like a history of um not necessarily ignoring mental health, but definitely like it's not they don't recognize it as as real as it is, they don't recognize it as a problem that it can be. I think it's more so with when I grew up, it was more so of like, oh, it's all in your head, um, the man up sort of mentality.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Um yeah, I was I was gonna say grow up here, but uh you had you had the G-rated version of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, that's that's that's the third one. Yeah, that's that no, that's what I was told too. Um but I think it's it's moving forward, even like I have so many conversations with people about mental health and talking about the generational gap. Um I I refer I I refer to um sometimes to my mental health, to my struggles um as like working on my mentals. Um and for some generations, I think I I think I said that on Facebook or somewhere, some other social media platform, um and someone talked about how like that term mentals um is derogatory towards mental health because of when they grew up, uh the word like mentals was talking about being being confined to a mental institution. Um so that's something like you know what I'm like oh I'm so sorry I didn't realize that people take offense to it being called that. That's me learning from other generations and also other generations realizing that people my my age and so forth, we call it that trying to deal with our own mental health struggles, trying to um not necessarily dark humor, um, but just trying to be like, oh yeah, this is kind of like the funniest spin that we can talk about it so that we can have these open conversations um and trying to move forward, trying to better ourselves through conversation, through shared experience.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Do you see that helping? Again, this this this collective, you know, talking it out.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

It is, you know what? I like again, I I I have I I'm lucky enough to go around the United States visiting libraries, talking to library conferences, early education conferences, and mental health conferences. And every time I talk to people, it's they all they always mention how they love that they can talk about their anxiety, they can talk about their depression, um, their bipolar disorder, their PTSD, postpartum, and so on. Um, and I think what that's important, what's important is that they're so happy that they're relieved they can talk about it. That's what it is. It's not just talking about it with a therapist, it's talking about it with friends, with families, having a shared mental health check network where you can say, I'm having a bad day, and this is why. And even if your particular friend doesn't have the same brand of anxiety, it's the same brand of depression that you do, you at least are willing to have a conversation, both of you are willing to learn from one another. Um, I think so many people are just like they're relieved, they're like, Oh, I can admit it, I don't have to hide my mental health struggles, I don't have to match them, I can talk about them openly, and people aren't going to judge me, they're not going to bully me, they're not gonna belittle me, they're gonna say, it is very, very real what's happening to you. How can we help one another out through conversations? And sometimes helping is just listening.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, and I guess it's it's it's it's uh very I'm not gonna say therapeutic, it's beyond therapy, but it's just that that state of mind where it's it's releasing that pressure cooker that's to hold things inside of you. And that prevents you become the better version of yourself, in my opinion.

Cyberbullying And Turning Up Kindness

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Totally agree.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Getting back to the toxic positivity, I just the the comment that I just wanted to make here is this I believe is an element of what I would consider cyberbullying. How do you address that uh yourself? Do you ignore it? Do you or what do you do there? Because again, with a lot of and you know, technology as we talk about mental health and mental growth, you know, the hateful comments that uh people have against one another, it's so easy to do that, you know, with zeros and ones as you're typing, you're not necessarily seeing the person. So I'm just trying to figure out, you know, how um with your energy, right, that you exude, um that, you know, how do you deal with the cyberbullying that may or may not affect you?

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yeah, you know what? It's it's it's really difficult. I think it's more difficult than we as a society want to let on. I like that you had mentioned sticks and stones uh may break my bone, but words will never never uh never hurt me, which is something I think many of our our our grown-ups, our parents um taught us growing up. But I think it's just it's so interesting because words really are words really are yeah, words really are hurtful. It's like, yes, that hurts. That's yeah, sticks and stones, they they hurt differently, but words, words still hurt. Words have a lot of power.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Um sometimes people And words have energy.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

They do. Sometimes on people's worst day, they they use very, very mean words that they wouldn't use on their best day or their meet their their medium-sized day. Um but for me, I think I've I've had I think about two two very um public experiences with cyberbullying from people um talking about me. Um and it's really hard because I think people don't realize that those moments, those those moments of of negative comments, negative things, um, they happen so often. I think I'm I'm regarded as like a wholesome, um, kind, friendly sort of individual. And that's why I try that's why I try to be. Um but I still receive a lot of negativity. I read a lot of negative comments. Um I try not to read comments um any longer. A lot of my friends are like, nope, you're not allowed to read the comments. Yeah, you just post and forget it. Um and that's why that's what's that's why I try my best to do. But I mean sometimes things still people um negative things will still make their way back to me. Um and for me, because I know like a lot of different people view the videos, the uh the the posts that I create, that some of them are library kids. So each time I've talked about cyberbullying, I try to say, you know what? What if the library kids see what this person says? What if their library grown-ups need to talk about them with what was said about me? So each time I publicly address cyberbullying, it's been because someone had brought it to my attention that their library kid came across and I said, you know what? This is what I think eight-year-old library kid me would have would have uh needed to hear, would have wanted a person like myself um in that content sane. So I'm just I'm just trying to do my best to let them know that yes, it is hurtful. Cyberbullying does hurt, it is bullying. Um it is not a fun experience, but I I personally I like to say, you know what? A lot of people consider themselves to be professional trolls. They're on social media trying to bring people down. Um, unfortunately, that's what's fun to them. Um just trying to say, you know what, yes, your your words, energy. You use the word energy, your words have energy. Um they have so much negativity. Um, but then I think again in cyberbullying, there's there's so much more positivity on the internet than negativity. The negativity is so, so very loud. Like the volume is like all the way up on negativity, um, and it's very, very low on positivity. I say, you know what, how do we turn up the volume on positivity on those kind comments, on those friendly ones, of the ones saying, yes, thank you for being here. Thank you for making what you're making, thank you for saying what you said. Um, I think that's really what I've tried to do when it comes to cyberbullying, is just try to see.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

And I would even take that one step further, Michael, and that is kindness is its own superpower.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I'd agree. I'm a big fan of kindness and kind people. Um, they mean the they mean the world to me. I've been lucky enough to be surrounded by so many kind people all my lives. So as much as I talk about joy and library joy, I'm all I'm just as much all about kindness.

Mr Rogers Bob Ross And LeVar Burton

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Right, absolutely. Speaking of kindness, some of your most influential people that you referenced, um, and I'd like to hear your story about your partnership with PBS. Um, but Mr. Rogers and Bob Rock. I consider the Mount Rushmore of PBS icons. Yeah, I'd agree. What are their timeless messages that apply today?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

I would also need to backtrack to help the younger citizens of Oak Nation understand who Mr. Rogers and Bob Ross are. So maybe you can just give that a quick little uh bio.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah, you know what? I could do my do my best, and I would also add LeVar Burton to the people's icons as well. Mr. Rogers was Mr. Rogers' neighborhood, which I think a lot of your younger viewers would probably know who uh who Daniel Tiger is on PBS. Daniel Tiger was uh Mr. Rogers' very good friend on Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. Mr. Rogers, Fred Rogers, just an incredible human being. I consider him the kindest person who ever lived. Um he just taught us different messages every single day on his television show, Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. Um we were all neighbors together with Mr. Rogers. He was wearing, he would put on his cardigan, um, change his shoes, and then just infect us with his incredible personality and phenomenal kindness. Um Bob Ross was an extraordinary painter who believed that no one could make mistakes. Um, just happy little trees, um everything was a happy little accident, um, which was very funny from Bob Ross because he was such an incredible painter, so I very rarely saw any painting mistakes that Bob Ross made, but still very similar, just a very calm, calm voice man, um, very soothing, um, incredible, incredible afro. Um, I've been I've been honored honored to um I've dressed like Bob Ross several times. Um he also had a pet squirrel peapod, the uh the PBS Bob Ross lore. Um and then LeVar Burton, extraordinary um author, actor, uh writer, so many things, famous in Star Trek and Roots, but also um but also reading Rainbow, which is to me the biggest biggest thing that LeVar Burton discovered about.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, that's that's uh that's how I grew up as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

So just just truly just encouraging people to read so often. You just would see would see LeVar Burton on your screen, and he was just so happy about reading books to you. There were kid book reviews, he was going all over the world, um, just sharing book bookish experiences, and he wouldn't have an adventure that suited those experiences. So those three, I mean, I I love them so much. I I didn't get to watch too much TV um as a kid, but I was always out out biking with my friends, um, getting into mischief and being at the library. As kids do, yeah, being being in the library. Um and it was the three of them, honestly. I mean others too, but the three of them watching them on television was just so were just so great. I've always tried to emulate their kindness, um, their incredible just spirits.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Um and just yeah, I mean Did any of them did any of them have like a foundational theme?

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I think kind of kindness was a foundational theme. It's just trying to be just the just the kings of kindness without trying to be the kings of kindness. Um and they all did it in their own way. I think Mr. Rogers was just directly about kindness. Um, I would say Bob Ross did it through painting, and then LeVar Burton did it through books and literacy and just general encouragement.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, that's that is so true. Um you think it's lost in today's tech-driven social media world?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

You know what? I think it was, but I think it's starting to uh what you know, I think it just didn't exist the same way because we we who kind of were on social media didn't realize what it could be, what could be done. But I think I look at people like Miss Miss Rachel, um, who's in the same vein as Mr. Rogers and the Var Burton and Bob Ross. Um I think Steve Burns, who was in the who was the star of Blues Clues, um, is another person who just is doing incredible things just like they did. He just comes on there um and he just reminds us of like, oh man, thank you, Steve. I needed you to just to just listen. Like he can just be on the screen and just his face alone, you're like, oh, I'm okay. Um like Elise Myers, who comes on and just tells stories to people on social media, funny stories from everyday life. So I think, I think honestly, I think Mr. Rogers, um, LeVar Burton and Bob Ross will always be the originators, um, the kings, um, the extraordinary people of what they did. But I think people are realizing that social media um there is so much room for positivity and for enthusiasm on on these various platforms. It doesn't just have to be um jokes and memes, which I'm all about. I love those that that's my algorithm on a lot of the platforms when I watch, but there's also room in people's algorithms in their in their life um for kindness and encouragement and joy on social media too.

Finding Your Joy And Sharing It

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah, and unfortunately, it's well, fortunately, it's not sensationalism, which I think that gets drowned in all of the uh social media messages that that you see here today. But I've always believed that the answers are within ourselves. And so whether you find that meaning in a library, in a book, um certainly the open discussion we're having about mental health and mental growth, I think all of that hopefully can translate to a person that I always like to say is listening in the quiet corner of their room, reflecting on this message.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Exactly. I I love that you're finding it within yourself. And just like for me, I happen to have library joy, but whatever your version of joy is, that's the perfect thing for you to pursue to keep yourself going, like you said, in the in the depths, in the darkness of your room. Um you can you can find that light, you can find that next 24 hours and keep on making it to that next day, you can keep on finding finding your joy, whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

And on that note, that is a beautiful segment to say, Michael, thank you kindly for coming onto the podcast. It's been a blessing. And you know, I guess my ending comment is rather than hit the like and subscribe, if you happen to find a message that has resonated from what Michael shared, please send it share this to uh a friend, a family member, person you care about, because that's how we will make this Yog Nation platform, which is not just me, um, it's all of us together. So thank you for listening.